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	<title>Comments on: What is the source of Singapore&#8217;s &#8220;SH*T society&#8221;? Singaporeans or foreigners?</title>
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		<title>By: polar</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-19567</link>
		<dc:creator>polar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 14:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-19567</guid>
		<description>I know a Singaporean chinese guy working at the petrol kiosk nearest to my house. He is very friendly and whenever I&#039;m at the petrol kiosk, we will chat for a couple of minutes. Just recently i learnt through his colleague that he and other Singaporeans were told to leave. The reason given was that they wanted to cut costs by hiring China workers. I felt that that was totally unfair. The fact that the poor guy was told to leave just because they want to cut costs by bringing in China workers, is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know a Singaporean chinese guy working at the petrol kiosk nearest to my house. He is very friendly and whenever I&#8217;m at the petrol kiosk, we will chat for a couple of minutes. Just recently i learnt through his colleague that he and other Singaporeans were told to leave. The reason given was that they wanted to cut costs by hiring China workers. I felt that that was totally unfair. The fact that the poor guy was told to leave just because they want to cut costs by bringing in China workers, is ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: CelluloidReality</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18258</link>
		<dc:creator>CelluloidReality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 08:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18258</guid>
		<description>Two criteria. 

1. Ability to support oneself
2. Willingness to integrate and settle down  

If these are not met, why bother?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two criteria. </p>
<p>1. Ability to support oneself<br />
2. Willingness to integrate and settle down  </p>
<p>If these are not met, why bother?</p>
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		<title>By: Five Cents Ten Cents &#187; Blog Archives &#187; Your choice of home impacts your financial freedom [1 Year Ago on Five Cents Ten Cents]</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18216</link>
		<dc:creator>Five Cents Ten Cents &#187; Blog Archives &#187; Your choice of home impacts your financial freedom [1 Year Ago on Five Cents Ten Cents]</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:54:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18216</guid>
		<description>[...] quickly. Even HDB apartments are renting for $2-$3k per mth in choice locations. Under increasing immigration, the real demand for residential homes will be here. Therefore, buying your own home allows you to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] quickly. Even HDB apartments are renting for $2-$3k per mth in choice locations. Under increasing immigration, the real demand for residential homes will be here. Therefore, buying your own home allows you to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mrbiao</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18205</link>
		<dc:creator>mrbiao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 00:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18205</guid>
		<description>Jimmy: I do think Singapore is a shitty society. But I just wanted to point out that Singaporeans are not the only source of it.

And you are in essence agreeing that our shit society is in part due to peidu mamas who come here and engage in vice. Why don&#039;t you look at it in another angle and say, hey, shouldn&#039;t mothers be good examples to their children? So isn&#039;t that a source of shit? If the mothers can become prostitutes just to earn money, what kind of things are they teaching to their children?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimmy: I do think Singapore is a shitty society. But I just wanted to point out that Singaporeans are not the only source of it.</p>
<p>And you are in essence agreeing that our shit society is in part due to peidu mamas who come here and engage in vice. Why don&#8217;t you look at it in another angle and say, hey, shouldn&#8217;t mothers be good examples to their children? So isn&#8217;t that a source of shit? If the mothers can become prostitutes just to earn money, what kind of things are they teaching to their children?</p>
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		<title>By: Onlooker</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18193</link>
		<dc:creator>Onlooker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:12:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18193</guid>
		<description>That chinese blogger did not own a mirror and so cannot see how ugly his reflection is.
A lot of point you made are quite observant too.
JE MRT on weekend is.....
But the point is putting all the blame on us Singaporean only prove the point that they do not posses the magnitude and graciousness that we posses in tolerating their uncouth behaviors while they are here.
Just a food for thought I would like to add our police force motto, Low Crime doesn&#039;t mean no crime.
As we all know (if not experienced), Some (not all) of our new imports like to &quot;Borrow&quot; stuff that they conveniently forget to return.
Our elderly had been &quot;Free gamed cheat,con,seduce and trick out of their life savings&quot; suffering.
How many families end up in divorce due to the massive influx of &quot;Overstaying Tourist&quot; who like to stay in Geylang with some even soliciting for business in Coffee shop and shopping centres.While spreading their favourite disease.
The massage palour and other places of vices gambling etc etc.
Heck there is even a FT female pinoy loan shark.
Do we, the citizens of Singapore, have to welcome these Talents with open arms so as not to be label &quot;Xenophobic&quot;?
If being So is xenophobic, Call me Xenophobic but I know what I&#039;ll do to stamp this &quot;Facade solution and cheap labour&quot; addiction by our Elites.
Yes, We Can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That chinese blogger did not own a mirror and so cannot see how ugly his reflection is.<br />
A lot of point you made are quite observant too.<br />
JE MRT on weekend is&#8230;..<br />
But the point is putting all the blame on us Singaporean only prove the point that they do not posses the magnitude and graciousness that we posses in tolerating their uncouth behaviors while they are here.<br />
Just a food for thought I would like to add our police force motto, Low Crime doesn&#8217;t mean no crime.<br />
As we all know (if not experienced), Some (not all) of our new imports like to &#8220;Borrow&#8221; stuff that they conveniently forget to return.<br />
Our elderly had been &#8220;Free gamed cheat,con,seduce and trick out of their life savings&#8221; suffering.<br />
How many families end up in divorce due to the massive influx of &#8220;Overstaying Tourist&#8221; who like to stay in Geylang with some even soliciting for business in Coffee shop and shopping centres.While spreading their favourite disease.<br />
The massage palour and other places of vices gambling etc etc.<br />
Heck there is even a FT female pinoy loan shark.<br />
Do we, the citizens of Singapore, have to welcome these Talents with open arms so as not to be label &#8220;Xenophobic&#8221;?<br />
If being So is xenophobic, Call me Xenophobic but I know what I&#8217;ll do to stamp this &#8220;Facade solution and cheap labour&#8221; addiction by our Elites.<br />
Yes, We Can.</p>
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		<title>By: Jimmy</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18191</link>
		<dc:creator>Jimmy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 17:00:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18191</guid>
		<description>Regarding the &quot;Shit society&quot; comment and the resulting backlash, I think it is the usual Singaporean oversensitivity at work.

If you look at it objectively, it is indeed shitty that peidu mamas are allowed into Singapore just to end up as prostitutes. If these peidu mamas and their children don&#039;t have the means to live in Singapore, don&#039;t let them in. As simple as that. 

As for students becoming prostitutes, shouldn&#039;t our government be more stringent about the people they let in?

If I am a genuine student like the comment writer, I will be pissed off too. Let&#039;s say you went to Australia to study to find that many of your fellow Singaporean classmates becoming prostitutes, wouldn&#039;t you be pissed at the Australian government for letting this happen? Wouldn&#039;t this lower the value of your degree? Worse is that the locals will think all Singaporeans including you are desperate for money. This is what is happening to genuine Chinese students in Singapore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the &#8220;Shit society&#8221; comment and the resulting backlash, I think it is the usual Singaporean oversensitivity at work.</p>
<p>If you look at it objectively, it is indeed shitty that peidu mamas are allowed into Singapore just to end up as prostitutes. If these peidu mamas and their children don&#8217;t have the means to live in Singapore, don&#8217;t let them in. As simple as that. </p>
<p>As for students becoming prostitutes, shouldn&#8217;t our government be more stringent about the people they let in?</p>
<p>If I am a genuine student like the comment writer, I will be pissed off too. Let&#8217;s say you went to Australia to study to find that many of your fellow Singaporean classmates becoming prostitutes, wouldn&#8217;t you be pissed at the Australian government for letting this happen? Wouldn&#8217;t this lower the value of your degree? Worse is that the locals will think all Singaporeans including you are desperate for money. This is what is happening to genuine Chinese students in Singapore.</p>
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		<title>By: mrbiao</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18187</link>
		<dc:creator>mrbiao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 16:01:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18187</guid>
		<description>Sun - thanks for the informative comments. I do agree with you that Singapore does need foreign manpower - but I am not convinced that it has to be done at all levels of society - from cleaners to CEOs. 

I do not oppose foreign workers&#039; presence in Singapore indiscriminately... my view is that there should be a more balanced approach in &#039;buying manpower&#039;, that is, to consider welfare for Singaporeans besides considering the economic considerations.

And no, I do not think foreigners are all here to beg. This is a cognitive bias that you are basing your judgment on - an either/or polarity-based kind of thinking. I believe that there are definitely some foreigners who are here just to earn what they can and leave when they should... but there are also those who are able to appreciate that Singapore gave them opportunities and they would stay to contribute their skills to our society.

&quot;The world has appreciated Singapore’s Government for the way it provides a conducive environment for business growth. Pls. refer to world economic forum’s GITR rankings for more info.&quot; - you are coming from the mentality where being rated for conducive business growth means being good in other areas as well. That&#039;s known as the halo effect. I have no doubt that Singapore is one of the best places to conduct business in, but unfortunately not as much effort is being done for Singaporeans welfare vs foreigners&#039; welfare. That is the main point of contention here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sun &#8211; thanks for the informative comments. I do agree with you that Singapore does need foreign manpower &#8211; but I am not convinced that it has to be done at all levels of society &#8211; from cleaners to CEOs. </p>
<p>I do not oppose foreign workers&#8217; presence in Singapore indiscriminately&#8230; my view is that there should be a more balanced approach in &#8216;buying manpower&#8217;, that is, to consider welfare for Singaporeans besides considering the economic considerations.</p>
<p>And no, I do not think foreigners are all here to beg. This is a cognitive bias that you are basing your judgment on &#8211; an either/or polarity-based kind of thinking. I believe that there are definitely some foreigners who are here just to earn what they can and leave when they should&#8230; but there are also those who are able to appreciate that Singapore gave them opportunities and they would stay to contribute their skills to our society.</p>
<p>&#8220;The world has appreciated Singapore’s Government for the way it provides a conducive environment for business growth. Pls. refer to world economic forum’s GITR rankings for more info.&#8221; &#8211; you are coming from the mentality where being rated for conducive business growth means being good in other areas as well. That&#8217;s known as the halo effect. I have no doubt that Singapore is one of the best places to conduct business in, but unfortunately not as much effort is being done for Singaporeans welfare vs foreigners&#8217; welfare. That is the main point of contention here.</p>
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		<title>By: Sun</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18185</link>
		<dc:creator>Sun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 15:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18185</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr Biao, 

Good post. But I completely don&#039;t agree with you. 
To begin with an example, You walk into NTUC Fairprice. How much percentage of all the goods sold there are manufactured in Singapore? Very Very less. Singapore is a very very small country which doesn&#039;t even have many basic natural resources within it. It *BUYS* them. The same way it BUYS manpower. It buys because it can&#039;t sustain without it. One of the reasons all the multinational banks, IT companies, Finance companies of non-singapore origin have setup their branches here is not because Singapore graduates a very large number of engineers an year. It is because the Singapore Govt will get them in from other countries atleast. This is called &quot;ekills Gap Filling&quot; technically and you can read more about that by googling for eskills. If Singapore doesn&#039;t buy Men from other countries like it buys water, electricity, food etc etc, then there is no good economy at the first place here forget about the economic slowdown and Singaporeans loosing jobs. That is called Trade. You give something and get something. 
Just because you running out of jobs now and so you want to kick out other foreigners is not only &quot;selfish&quot; but poor thinking. What if in an year the US kicks off well again, companies here too want more experienced manpower suddenly. You don&#039;t create them with a magic wand right?. 
Why don&#039;t you stop eating that yummy peanut butter because it is got into here from Australia. You don&#039;t stop and shouldn&#039;t. Because you buy it. The same way the other parties sell it. 
European Commission is re-thinking about their stringent immigration into EU just because of their shortage in eskills. http://eskills.cedefop.europa.eu/conference2008/ 
They now want to loosen the immigration rules. Just to attract foreign talent. Not all countries produce such talent my brother. China graduates 600,000 Engineers per yr wheras India does 450,000 the US at 70,000. 
You speak as though foreigners are here to beg (a summary of your writing gives that impression- though you don&#039;t directly say that). I am sorry my brother whether that foreigner is a CEO of an MNC or a construction worker from Bangladesh, remember the Govt wants him that the reason he is here. The world has appreciated Singapore&#039;s Government for the way it provides a conducive environment for business growth. Pls. refer to world economic forum&#039;s GITR rankings for more info.

Thanks. And I am falling on my keyboard. Should go get some good sleep. Adios.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr Biao, </p>
<p>Good post. But I completely don&#8217;t agree with you.<br />
To begin with an example, You walk into NTUC Fairprice. How much percentage of all the goods sold there are manufactured in Singapore? Very Very less. Singapore is a very very small country which doesn&#8217;t even have many basic natural resources within it. It *BUYS* them. The same way it BUYS manpower. It buys because it can&#8217;t sustain without it. One of the reasons all the multinational banks, IT companies, Finance companies of non-singapore origin have setup their branches here is not because Singapore graduates a very large number of engineers an year. It is because the Singapore Govt will get them in from other countries atleast. This is called &#8220;ekills Gap Filling&#8221; technically and you can read more about that by googling for eskills. If Singapore doesn&#8217;t buy Men from other countries like it buys water, electricity, food etc etc, then there is no good economy at the first place here forget about the economic slowdown and Singaporeans loosing jobs. That is called Trade. You give something and get something.<br />
Just because you running out of jobs now and so you want to kick out other foreigners is not only &#8220;selfish&#8221; but poor thinking. What if in an year the US kicks off well again, companies here too want more experienced manpower suddenly. You don&#8217;t create them with a magic wand right?.<br />
Why don&#8217;t you stop eating that yummy peanut butter because it is got into here from Australia. You don&#8217;t stop and shouldn&#8217;t. Because you buy it. The same way the other parties sell it.<br />
European Commission is re-thinking about their stringent immigration into EU just because of their shortage in eskills. <a href="http://eskills.cedefop.europa.eu/conference2008/" rel="nofollow">http://eskills.cedefop.europa.eu/conference2008/</a><br />
They now want to loosen the immigration rules. Just to attract foreign talent. Not all countries produce such talent my brother. China graduates 600,000 Engineers per yr wheras India does 450,000 the US at 70,000.<br />
You speak as though foreigners are here to beg (a summary of your writing gives that impression- though you don&#8217;t directly say that). I am sorry my brother whether that foreigner is a CEO of an MNC or a construction worker from Bangladesh, remember the Govt wants him that the reason he is here. The world has appreciated Singapore&#8217;s Government for the way it provides a conducive environment for business growth. Pls. refer to world economic forum&#8217;s GITR rankings for more info.</p>
<p>Thanks. And I am falling on my keyboard. Should go get some good sleep. Adios.</p>
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		<title>By: mrbiao</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18169</link>
		<dc:creator>mrbiao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:29:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18169</guid>
		<description>Shijia said:

&quot;When cheaper goods flowed into the west many jobs were lost to the cheaper to employ Asian man. We adjusted and learned from this. The world does not owe you a living either, labour flow is a market like any, foreign talent equally is something you are purchasing. the 200,000 Chinese workers in your country, they have to go home sometime, so they have the same commitment to long-term housing and a retirement investment as you , only they have to pay for accommodation here in Singapore as well.&quot;

I have some difficulties understanding your english language, but I&#039;ll try to address your points anyway.

There is no talk about the world oweing us anything in the first place. The fact is that a government has the moral obligation to protect its people to a certain extent. As much as the Chinese government (and other governments around the world) have been limiting foreign investments and property ownership in mainland China, people in Singapore have the same rights to demand limits be set on unfair foreign competition.

Unfortunately you failed to address the issue of the cost of long-term obligations in China vs in Singapore. In Singapore, one can only buy a HDB flat with S$150k and above. In China, I believe depending on location, it can be very very very much lower. Furthermore, with regards to their accomodation while in Singapore, depending on the type of accomodation, it can be very cheap as well. Let&#039;s just say rental for a HDB room is about $300+ a month upwards? An foreign engineer earning, say $2,500 can easily afford that and have lots of money left to save or remit back home after deducting living costs. A Singaporean won&#039;t have much left after deducting costs of HDB mortgage, bills, saving up for children&#039;s costly education here.

In short, you are unable to deny that costs back home in China is definitely much lesser than in Singapore and thus foreign workers do have competitive advantage to be able to settle for lower pay compared to Singaporeans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shijia said:</p>
<p>&#8220;When cheaper goods flowed into the west many jobs were lost to the cheaper to employ Asian man. We adjusted and learned from this. The world does not owe you a living either, labour flow is a market like any, foreign talent equally is something you are purchasing. the 200,000 Chinese workers in your country, they have to go home sometime, so they have the same commitment to long-term housing and a retirement investment as you , only they have to pay for accommodation here in Singapore as well.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have some difficulties understanding your english language, but I&#8217;ll try to address your points anyway.</p>
<p>There is no talk about the world oweing us anything in the first place. The fact is that a government has the moral obligation to protect its people to a certain extent. As much as the Chinese government (and other governments around the world) have been limiting foreign investments and property ownership in mainland China, people in Singapore have the same rights to demand limits be set on unfair foreign competition.</p>
<p>Unfortunately you failed to address the issue of the cost of long-term obligations in China vs in Singapore. In Singapore, one can only buy a HDB flat with S$150k and above. In China, I believe depending on location, it can be very very very much lower. Furthermore, with regards to their accomodation while in Singapore, depending on the type of accomodation, it can be very cheap as well. Let&#8217;s just say rental for a HDB room is about $300+ a month upwards? An foreign engineer earning, say $2,500 can easily afford that and have lots of money left to save or remit back home after deducting living costs. A Singaporean won&#8217;t have much left after deducting costs of HDB mortgage, bills, saving up for children&#8217;s costly education here.</p>
<p>In short, you are unable to deny that costs back home in China is definitely much lesser than in Singapore and thus foreign workers do have competitive advantage to be able to settle for lower pay compared to Singaporeans.</p>
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		<title>By: shijia</title>
		<link>http://www.mrbiao.com/blog/what-is-the-source-of-singapores-sht-society-singaporeans-or-foreigners.html/comment-page-1#comment-18167</link>
		<dc:creator>shijia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 06:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mrbiao.com/?p=600#comment-18167</guid>
		<description>When cheaper goods flowed into the west many jobs were lost to the cheaper to employ Asian man. We adjusted and learned from this. The world does not owe you a living either, labour flow is a market like any, foreign talent equally is something you are purchasing. Now think this on the 200,000 Chinese workers
in your country, they have to go home sometime, so they have the same commitment to long-term housing and a retirement investment as you , only they have to pay for accommodation here in Singapore as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When cheaper goods flowed into the west many jobs were lost to the cheaper to employ Asian man. We adjusted and learned from this. The world does not owe you a living either, labour flow is a market like any, foreign talent equally is something you are purchasing. Now think this on the 200,000 Chinese workers<br />
in your country, they have to go home sometime, so they have the same commitment to long-term housing and a retirement investment as you , only they have to pay for accommodation here in Singapore as well.</p>
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